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💚LAUREN
Please share a little bit about yourself, and a little bit about how you first became involved with 4-H programs.
My name is Lauren Nance, now Lauren Case. I am 45 years old. I'm a lifelong resident of Providence, Rhode Island- even though I moved away for a few years.
I started doing 4-H, I would say probably around 5 or 6 years old, and there was a woman in our neighborhood that ran a 4-H club in her basement. She invited me and my mom (Connie) to come over. My mom and I thought it was a great idea and then when she (her name was Claudia) decided she didn't want to run the program anymore, my mom took over. From that point, 4-H was a part of my life up until about age 17. That's my 4-H experience in a nutshell.
What was it that made you choose to be involved in 4-H as a youth or stay involved with 4-H?
I really didn't have much of a choice. You know my mom. My mom lead it- they referred to our our program as the Community Club- 4-H Community Club- because it was set up very different than you know- your average 4-H programs (you know farm animals, agriculture). So it was an opportunity for us to do something- to learn life skills, to be a part of something bigger than ourselves, also in the middle of what is referred to as a "high crime" neighborhood. So we we had programs every Saturday- every Saturday morning we get up go to whatever place, churches, halls, etc. We got together and learned life skills: cooking, woodworking, dance classes- it was it was more of a choice that was made for me by my mother, to keep us off the streets and and have a good time with our family.
Some young people have experiences in youth organizations where the youth had no active leadership role and leaders lacking a caring approach. In your experience, was 4-H different?
Yeah, we were actually encouraged to take on leadership skills and leadership roles as soon as we were 'the older kids'- we'd be looking out for the little kids. We were encouraged to teach what we learned to the younger children. I remember, (I said five right?)
S-Yes
So, I started out as one of those younger people. I attribute an incredible amount of who I am as a woman and as a leader today to being a part of 4-H and being able to lead, not just my friend, but to meet people from other places. And to be a leader in working with them as well and (learning) “don’t be afraid of people's differences”- you know, to get to know people that come from different places- it was very important to me being a leader. Now, I'm a person that people always refer to as a leader. And I'm like I don't know, I just always have been- but that's because we were ingrained with that and of course we come from families where our mothers were amazing leaders, right?
We learned that from them too, but they were also our 4-H leaders, and that could be a delicate balance sometimes- with your mom being in charge of your friends, or your mom making YOU be in charge of your friends- you know, definitely it was encouraged for young people, and it was expected that we would take over the reins- you know at some point- so yes that definitely encouraged.
4-H youth in the mid-1980s to mid-1990s in Rhode Island came from rural, urban and suburban communities. Though youth were from different places and backgrounds- do you feel that 4-H leaders and programs fostered a sense of belonging for all 4-Hers? If so- how? If not- can you share an example?
Yes, cool, yes. Let's be honest- right- you guys were in Scituate- we were in Providence, they/we could have run very healthy clubs and have never interacted. We could have, we could have done just that- but somehow (I don't even know, we’d have to ask them, you know, what that conversation looked like) how they decided to get us (sic-urban and rural kids) together.
You know and the impact of us learning things- you know- like milking cows and stuff like, that was pretty amazing. I don't know if I would have ever done that had I not attended fairs, or you know, just visited where my fellow 4-H-ers are from. And the crazy thing is (even though) we just did totally different things in our clubs- you know, we all share the same pledge and the pledge matters no matter where you live. You know- under the (as they say) the ‘white an’ the green’ (the 4-H colors) and you know we all share the same pledge and the pledge matters no matter where you live. It was really cool.
People laugh now cuz I'm such a city girl- they think it's funny. I said to my friends, ‘I have to do an interview on my way to yoga.’ And they said, ‘You have to do an interview about yoga?’
And I said, ‘No about being a 4-H member.’ They were like, ‘Oh?’
I said, we had a community club, you know I'm the opportunity angle right where we were able to 4-H programs little city kids down there doing arts and crafts for us to be involved in something even Rhode Island.
Thinking back to that time, are there any moments in your 4-H experience in which you felt listened to, supported or felt seen by an adult leader that stand out in your memory?
Humm, I mean okay I can. I can think of someone who showed us particular interest in me as a person. Actually, Darryl's mom cuz it’s funny because my mom is very like- you know, “Oh everybody, I love everybody” and I am too, but I’m a little different about it. And you know she's (Darryl’s mom) kind of like me, like sometimes, kind of very matter-of-fact and pragmatic and you know, through our relationship of being in 4-H,I learned that. So we joke we always joke that she’s my “other mom”, because she saw that in me and would encourage my mom past chastising me for not being like her so she always leaned into leaned into that, and she (Darryl’s mom Francis) gave me encouragement to be different than my mother- I don't have to be just like her, to you know, to be to be cool or decent. So, I think that that was a good example, and she's still a very very big part of my life to this day. Not just in my 4-H experience.”
S-That’s one of my favorites I think because many of us have a “4-H Mom”- those “other mothers” and for me I think a lot of Barbara Lamire’s mom- JoAnn Lemaire- so she was always very,like, you said (about Ms. Francis) she was also matter-of-fact, and my mom was very caring, very loving- (but) you know I had to call my mom “Shirley” just to get her attention at some of these (4-H) things- right?
L- Knowing laughter- Yup.
S-So like Ms. JoAnn was there for me when I was “on the struggle bus” with 4-H stuff Miss JoAnn supported me . And at the end (of the day) I like, I always love the story that, you know, your mom, Darryl's mom, and my mom were all expecting around the same time, and we were all born like 2 weeks apart.
L- I know. (laughter)
S-And they kinda met each other right around that time- or close to that time, so there’s that happenstance too- that you can’t make some of this stuff up. But anyway- I’m tengent-ing in my own interview setup, lol
L-That’s okay- it matters.
In your experience, was leading and working with WITH youth unique to 4-H?
How did 4-H leaders work with youth to help empower them to reach their goals?
Well-I will say the first thing that my mom really really required of the people that came to her community club, was that the whole family came. You know, she wanted the parents to come as well, and be a part of what we did every week every Saturday, and teach the classes to us, and to go to (4-H) camp and be counselors- so it was really an effort to get the whole family involved in something. I always joke with people,like we talk about Saturday morning cartoons- never in my life did I get up on Saturday and watch cartoons.”
S-Uhhuh, yes. (Enthusiastic commiseration nodding.)
I know nothing about that (laughter)- you get up with your cereal and you had that?? (Cartoons) That’s great that you had that- but I never (did) because we were the first ones there every time (on Saturdays). Then, so I used to “ho-hum” about it, but you can see the difference in people who had that (place to be on do things on Saturday) and didn't. (Laughs) Yes, we were doing things and so so (13:00 min.) I really think that the interaction was about families. You know the adults were there with their kids together and then they got to work with other people’s kids with the parents right there.
S- Yeah
So, It was a safe space, and a space for us to grow and learn together as a family, right? It wasn’t, you know… I remember we made donuts one time; you know?
I was like, "we're going to make donuts?" and I think Fran (Darryl's mom) taught us to make Donuts.
They are the best I’ve ever had to this day- and probably because we made them. But They were delicious, and I was like-you can you make donuts? Like, you know, that's something you just go to -Dunkin' donuts and get back then, it was like they weren't everywhere, right? So, it's a big deal and the whole family learned how to make donuts, right?
So the whole family learned how to make them- the parents learned as well as the kids and we enjoyed them- and I think that it was a family experience- so the parents were able to interact with their kids form something from school and chores, and you know family stuff is just a good time for everyone. I don't think that there's enough right now that exists, I mean at least in my community, where parents lean into it with their kids- and learn with them and encourage them in a way.
You know, that it's more like “a holding” them than a “pushing” (type of learning) , yeah you know like 'come on over here with me and learn this” as opposed to ‘go out there and achieve” - they were right there learning along with us. And I thought that was a great experience.
And of course-camp was always amazing to us (4-H Camp- Alton Jones URI Campus)
To get out of the city and listen to weird noises at night. (Laughter)
In your experience, how did RI 4-H include youth in planning and implementing programs?
Would you share a favorite example of something you helped to plan or a youth planned event that you attended?
Growing up, my mom was very very very strict with me at home. She was very tough- very hard on me, and a lot of people don’t know that, but growing up she was very very hard on me. And um, but when it came to like being at 4-H-it- she listened to me. She asked what I liked- um, so she encouraged us- she did things that were fun for us- like things that we liked.
So, every year we have a Halloween party-another thing I didn't get to experience- is trick or treating -til I was a parent right- so we’d have a Halloween Party every year and we’d get all the candy and everything all in one place - and so she would allow us to say, “At the party we want this, at the party we want that.”
Um, we did a scary house one time- it was all the teens- we set up a scary house for the little guys- our ideas and our interests were included- it wasn’t just a bounce of adults yacking at us about “doing handwriting- or whatever” and it evolved with us too- as we got older- they found things for us teens to do that would keep us engaged and like I said for us- we gotta be honest- if they ever and (I know it will matter when you’re expressing how progressive 4-H has been) for kids in Providence it’s a matter of life or death - it’s a matter of us not being on the street- and it really does matter. There’s kids now who I see who are like “I remember you from 4-H” and they stopped coming to 4-H and maybe their lives didn’t turn out as best as they could have or should have.
S- Yeah
And you know that we formed a real family unit around 4-H and all of the kids that were involved we still consider each other as cousins and our moms as aunties- and stuff- because it was a matter of that for us- they did engage our ideas and interests- and evolved them to what we liked and it was probably the only place she really listed to me.
S- I hear you on that- because to my mom and dad-I was the only one at home too- it was just me at home. I listened more to at 4-H than I did at home. So I definitely hear you with that experience.
L- You get it!
S- I get it.
(Zoom issue tanget 25:15-25:30)
In the 4-H Pledge, it speaks to clearer
thinking, greater loyalty, larger service and better living as goals or gifts
to bring to our club, community, country and world and their motto includes the
ideal of “making your best better.”
In your experience, how did the 4-H programs you experienced foster or support these goals?
So definitely, I
still remember the pledge- I said it to my mom the other day.
S- When I was super little- I remember the first two black people I ever met- and one was Ms. Phillis and she is still around, and she was an amazing 4-H leader that was tied with Head Start so her program was a little bit different. And this is when I was 2 or 3 years old- that’s how old I was and the second person was Kawami (name redacted) and at the time like- 1980, and he had a magnificent afro- like magnificent that and I was really little and I was like two years old, and he would let me (because I didn’t know any better) there’s pictures of me touching his afro- and now…I would NEVER…
L- Laughter - Those times were different.
S- and I tell my daughter, “You don’t touch anyone's hair without permission.”
L- (Laughter)- No you don’t.
S-You don’t do that. But there he was, and he was smiling- because I was so little and I didn’t know any better- um but like- just…
L- But he was as happy to share it with you as you were happy to explore it.
S- Yeah, and it was learning- like- so many people in my grade, in my life, in my school- even though they were raised with kindness they have so much ethnocentrism and ignorance- because they never spent any quality time speaking with a BIPOC person- like-
L- Yup
S- Like, never even to sit down and just have a cup of coffee or do a project of anything. But not to say in my work like- I have a lot of different colleagues who identify a lot of different ways. But I think a lot of the people I went to school with- their hearts have been hardened- they weren’t raised that way- and they’re more susceptible to the brain washing of what’s been happening culturally- and sorry I’m tangent-ing again- but part of the reason for doing this interview for me.
L- Because it’s not enough to - I have a girlfriend and she’s a white woman married to a black man- and she said to me one day “We didn’t see color growing up”- that's not the right thing either, right?
S- Mhm
L- I am a black woman, and my experience is different than yours, and it’s okay to say that. And you could teach me what it’s like growing up in your house and I could teach you what it was like growing up in mine- and most things are probably very similar- but there are some things that are just inherently different- and that’s okay- sometimes people just don’t talk to their kids about race so they’re not raised bigoted- but like you said the minute something comes up that they don’t know that it’s okay OR wrong- they're gonna go with the energy that feels safe for them and it leads them to feel like they have to protect themselves from people and that’s kind of the unfortunate- you know- like you said- they’re susceptible to that bigotry and craziness- but…
S- And Barbara and I were talking all around it- but not about it. Because - we have both- well she went out and volunteered for Americorp* (*Correction- Peace Corp) and she went out and volunteered there- and when we all came home from our (experiences outside our communities) that fear response- when you get out in the world- and you travel or even to a different city or town- you learn those things and that “fear response” it goes away- because you know people- you have examples of how to talk to people. And if you never know anybody- that fear response is what they capitalize on today.
And part of the reason I did this interview project is because there are people in right wing like southern states who are trying to claim that 4-H has never done anything progressive and has always been “wholesome and homogeneous” - you know “all American” homogeneous crap- right? And they threw a fit when - and they’re trying to occupy 4-H- like when (National) 4-H put up the gay (LGBTQA+) Flag and/or the Black Lives Matter flag
L- Laughter
Posted them on the 4-H Facebook and Black Lives matter- on like the National page (4-H) and I’m like- we need to reclaim this shit- I mean- we gotta- because we’ve been doing…
L- Yup
S- Doing programs that…that…are progressive for a long time.
L- Yeah!
Lauren-So definitely I still remember the pledge I said the other day when I was telling my mom and Aunty Pat (and they were laughing at me saying I had the best memory)- but I can think of touch points in my life where I would think about it. You know when you’re a kid- you’re just reciting a pledge- and proud to remember it. But it’s long after you do that where those tenants are being exercised that you realize wow that's what it really means. You know I work for the United Way right now- and I always I worked in the corporate world did all of that- but I always yearned to be of service to my community- I always have yearned for a job that served my soul right -and so- and when I talk about my need to feel civically responsible- and I want to teach that to other people other young people. I want young people to know there's a place in a role for you as a voter, as a volunteer, as in philanthropy right there's all of that- and I always refer it back to being in 4-H and learning to serve my community. Learning to, you know you can do something and have an impact on the whole world, not just our little bit of our community. So when we say- our country and our world - we mean more, like I'm more important than just the people on my street you know I'm important in the world.
Describe how your involvement in 4-H as a youth has impacted who you are as an adult today. What is one skill or lesson you learned that has stayed with you?
Yes, definitely-opportunities to meet people- I don’t even think I knew at the time that we had farms in Rhode Island- you know my world consisted of the City of Providence- and I thought that was everything. So I was definitely able to branch out in a safe space and have a common bond with people doing other things in my state- I went on the join City Year because it reminded me of 4-H so all of those things are were important, and the opportunities to travel (with 4-H youth programs) you know it made me more worldly- and honestly they are things that my mom may have never been able to afford and so I was able to do those things through the program and fund raise and um- yeah- like I said, learn to have a voice. We were all equally important- there were no “A students and B students” and “c students” and it wasn’t sports where some people are better than others- or like sports with students competing against each other- so to speak in a physical way- which is how kids in the inner city usually learn how to you know- be on teams and things like that- um and so, it fun- it was something fun to do- you know we complained about Saturday mornings- but I wouldn’t trade it for anything else in the world. And it was way better than Smurfs- I can watch Smurfs now!
S- Is there anything else you’d like to share?
(Sic) I do want to say that I would love for you to share with your mom- I remember when someone else was in charge of 4-H community clubs- and your mom came- and it made my mother feel so much better having a woman at the head and more compassionate about the struggles that she had- everybody in 4-H was was always cool- but she did love Ms. Shirley- and how warm she was to her and how welcoming and it makes a huge difference- tell her we love her and I’m sure that we had a couple of - you know- our experience as better because she was there to make sure folks felt welcome. And I know you know that’s your legacy- and I hope your daughter knows that too! Definitely means a whole, whole lot.
S- Thank you so much!
L-Am I making your eyes juicy, Sara?
S-A little, a little. To be continued- we’re gonna- ðŸ˜ðŸ’œðŸ’œ
L-I know this is important- and like my mom too- we need to give them their flowers while they’re here- it’s cool to have them as moms.
Sara-Thank you so much- to be continued. We’re gonna do more of this.
Lauren- Bye Sara- Love you!
Sara- Love you!
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